About Mike Liben
In just a few years, Mike and the Chai Travel team have built Chai into one of the fastest-growing travel companies in America and the premiere home for independent travel advisors.
He grew up in the travel industry and knows there's no business as exciting or as rewarding. He feels tremendously privileged to build Chai alongside his family and colleagues.
Mike co-founded Chai Travel after a decade of public service representing victims of domestic violence at the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office.
Beyond Chai, Mike dedicates himself to various political and charitable causes—and to his beloved New York Giants. He lives in Brooklyn, NY with his wife Lindsay and their three children.
Megan Quick:
Hello, and welcome back to the Creative Stack, a show about the intersection of creativity and information technology. I'm your host, y'all know me. I am Megan Quick, and I am joined as always by the president of Valiant Technology and my illustrious co-host, George Dowderman. Hello, George. Yes, please say hello to your fans.
Georg Dauterman:
Hello everybody. Hello, Megan. I'm so everywhere.
Megan Quick:
Today, George, I'm so excited about today. Not only is it, you know, the next parade day, just so y'all know, we're recording on that day. we also have an incredible guest, and he's also our neighbor, which gives this this episode a real Mr. Rogers feel overall. Michael Livan, founder and CEO of Chai Travel. How are you doing today?
Georg Dauterman:
Yes, it is. Y yes, it does. Yes it does. It's amazing.
Mike Liben:
I'm doing wonderful. I really appreciate you guys having me on. It's a real treat.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. No. Thank you. And Mike, we really appreciate the time and the and the and this dedication to doing this with us and we love having great conversations with fascinating people. But I gotta ask, you know, you're a neighbor, but what what does Child Travel do? How's it how how what what an
Megan Quick:
Thank you so much for being here.
Mike Liben:
Sure.
Georg Dauterman:
Man, what did you do before you did this? It was you don't seem like you're you're always in a travel agency business. I'd n no knowing you for a little while. you get a little background on on the whole thing. I'd love to hear about it.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, of course. So I will start with your first question of what do we do? And the answer is we w we help people that need any kind of travel assistance, whether it be for a trip you're taking with your family, whether you're doing corporate travel, are you doing entertainment travel, like you're a musician is touring the country, you need a lot of logistical help. And we have folks that will help you out with all of those needs.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. Cool. yeah.
Mike Liben:
And in terms of you know the other the other part of your question of w of w what is my personal background? So prior to starting this company in 2022, I was a lawyer. There's lots of recovering lawyers in the travel business.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. I I was in I was gonna I was kinda yeah I just know you for a while and and you and yeah when I first met you, you said I'm a recovering lawyer and it it almost feels like you're like a friend of bill kind of thing where it's you know, where you explain to me and and which is which is amazing and lawyer legal legal is a big bigger you know, it's a huge dedication of time and for energy. There's so much to it. but w what made you decide to start it up?
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Yeah. It is.
Georg Dauterman:
Like what what was what was w so what made you sort of like say I'm gonna get ahead of myself, but love to hear more about how how you guys decided to be like, all right, it's two years into the pandemic, I'm gonna stop lawyering. I'm not doing this anymore. I'm gonna go back to sort of what I know or what I did or my family or th what is on your website. If you just give us that give us a story. I love I'm a I'm a sucker for an origin story always.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Yeah. Sure, sure. So prior to this, I was a lawyer, as I said, for about 12 years. I worked at the district attorney's office in Brooklyn as a prosecutor. So really could not be any different than what I'm doing right now. But but I grew up around the travel business. So you know, this goes back a long time in my family. My dad was really a pioneer in this particular business. he was a really special guy and
Georg Dauterman:
Seriously. Mm-hmm.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, extremely well regarded in this industry. and so just a quick background on him, only because I mean if you want to talk about origin stories, his is one of the best ever. he grew up in Brooklyn, dropped out of high school, w what he was a sophomore, ran a summer camp for a few years across the hall from the summer camp, was this small travel agency.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. cool. Love it.
Mike Liben:
Was just two people in an office. all they did was sell tickets t to and from Tel Aviv. It's the only thing that they did. So th that was 1978. When he passed away in 2020, the agency that he walked across the hall to and eventually took over a few years later was the largest agency in New York. And I think the the
Georg Dauterman:
Interesting.
Mike Liben:
The the the the third largest agency in America.
Georg Dauterman:
Wow. I mean that's a th I mean unbelievable.
Mike Liben:
All with the education of up to about sixteen years old. so that you know, that story and his dedication and the relationships he built over time really created a a huge amount of goodwill. That, you know, when it was time for me and my sisters to figure out what are we gonna do here, you know, we all had
Georg Dauterman:
Ha. Right, right.
Mike Liben:
we said why would we do anything outside of the travel business, right? The travel business is w is w is what
Georg Dauterman:
Right, right.
Mike Liben:
It's where all the people we love are. And it just made all the sense in the world. So that is how we ended up in the travel page.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. It's so cool. just having that sort of the experience and then learning it all and then coming back and almost having the opportunity to put your like next spin on it, that the next place where it's gonna go. That's really awesome. That's so exciting.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Yeah, 'cause yeah, 'cause look, there's a lot there's a w there's a lot of change in this industry. A lot of it is on the technological side and just, you know, in the way that we deal with clients has changed a lot over the years. You know, it's completely different from w from w when my dad was in the business originally, but you know, he saw it th through a lot of those similar kind of changes. and
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. Right.
Mike Liben:
You know, I except what is really core and I think we'll we'll probably talk about this a little bit, is what's really interesting is what state the same.
Georg Dauterman:
That's sort of what I was gonna ask. You know, one of the things that we we in the IT field, sort of acknowledge when you go into this field and I tell young people that they're like interested in working in technology, I'm like, the only thing that's gonna be consistent is that it's gonna change. Probably within your o within your working life, you'll have to go through like four or five massive major changes where you're gonna have to relearn this just just all the things you might have done before.
Mike Liben:
Re major changes.
Georg Dauterman:
Your day to day is gonna change. but to your point, the the fundamentals don't change ever, really. And I think that's the part that's really the most important part, like the things you learn that are that are right, you know. but you just think about so what are some of the witnesses, what are some the changes you've seen in independent travel agencies over the years when you since I mean, I'm sure when you were a kid and like listening and being part of the business, what like what's what's some of the changes that have happened there? And then I would love to hear what stayed the same.
Mike Liben:
Right, right. Yes, yes. Yeah, so when my dad first started out, and as I was kind of observing what he did, and I would spend a lot of time at the office, right? Like whenever I was at school, I was at the office. In f in fact, I have the great pleasure to work with a lot of people now who remember me as a kid running around the office. So that's really cool. you know, and I think what's what's changed is early on in the industry, this was really just about use of air.
Georg Dauterman:
it's so cool.
Mike Liben:
Right, you were an agent of the airlines. You were out there, you were you you were selling the airline's product, which is why they were called travel agents. and I think, and you know, what has really changed over the years, especially in last 10 to 15 years, is a move from we are agents of the airlines, and the primary responsibility is to sell their.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right. Yeah.
Mike Liben:
To we are advisors of our clients. And that is why now actually you don't hear the word shrub agent as much. You hear travel advisor. And that is because it is a move from, or it's a move towards really, we are.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. interesting.
Mike Liben:
We are advisors of our clients and we and and really trusted advisors, the people that do
Georg Dauterman:
I was gonna say that the the the the space for the trusted advisor in this in this area is probably huge because you know it it's like the I'm sure I'm sure just not to not to put words in, but the idea is that the things that say the same is that trust, that knowledge, that that professionalism, the people and getting things done for people. So you know, it I I would say I assume that stays the same, but is there any lessons that really like jumped out like
Mike Liben:
Exactly. People.
Georg Dauterman:
when you sort of when you kinda came back into the business or into the this field, where you're like, Man, this is this is sort of how I remembered it.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. And I think you touched on a lot of it. It's really about the it's really about the people. And it's about the quality of service that you provide, right? It's about being willing to do whatever needs to be done in order to solve the problems that your client has. I imagine it's extremely extremely similar for your business as well, right? Like
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right.
Mike Liben:
To have the technological understanding and the background in whatever you need to do is obviously crucial, except that's really just table stakes, right? Like your knowledge of the tech world, our knowledge of the travel world is important, it's critical, it is absolute it is absolutely
Georg Dauterman:
Correct.
Mike Liben:
Mm mm. Mm-mm. It is absolutely necessary, but it is not sufficient. Right? What it what re what really gets the job done is what you do with that knowledge and the quality of the service that you provide to your clients on a day to day basis.
Georg Dauterman:
Correct. Right. I I'm I'm always I always say probably like most IT service providers and I serve same thing with travel advisors. It's like eighty, ninety percent we sell the same thing functionally. Like at the end of the day, you really boil it down. It's like, yeah, there's a different product here or a different solution here or a different thing. But the reality is like they're getting on a plane, they're going to a place, they're ha they're going to a hotel, they're having dinner. You know, for us it's like, hey, we're we're rolling out laptops, we're making sure it's secured, we're we're we're documenting it, we're inventorying it.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's right. Exactly. Yep. Yep.
Georg Dauterman:
the the space that's unique is that what how not only do you get it done for them when it has to get done, but it's also how you made them feel. I imagine that's it the for me that's always a big thing is how you make people feel. And you know, that kind of goes into like, one thing I wanna ask like, you know, as someone who's done their own, you know so I always feel like I'm doing my own brain surgery, planning my own trip. you I mean this is the information on the internet.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, exactly.
Georg Dauterman:
Some of us be good, some of us be bad. How do people how do people navigate all this information and misinformation that that people are getting? I'm sure people come to you like, Well, I saw this for this and I I w I wanna do this thing. You're like, Hold on a second. That's great, but
Mike Liben:
Sure. Right. Yes, exactly. And that that that and I think what you touched on is where kind of the industry expertise and the knowledge is really important, right? Because you do need to ingest what these people have already found on their own. And occasionally it works pretty well. But a lot of the times you need to say, No, yeah, yeah, yeah. And here's why. And you need a why, right? You can't just say, I well you know, you need to be able to back.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right.
Mike Liben:
And th that is where the actual expertise comes.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. If you do if you do I said so, you're just a parent who's like punishing the kid, right? Like you're just a parent who's like, as I said so, is I'm dad or something like that. it's so interesting. And yeah, actually I just want to go back to say I you know, obviously one of these is like you you took a huge leap of a business that was in sort of a beat up state in twenty twenty two. I was like as some as someone who's whose family also worked tangenally in in travel.
Mike Liben:
Correct, correct. Right. Yeah. So it didn't get much more beat up than the travel industry in twenty twenty two.
Georg Dauterman:
just always at the other my mother worked for Lufthansa. So so she was a she was a she worked in reservations. So so we knew that. And Stefan here at Valiant used to work for Lufthansa as well. he worked on a variety a variety of a variety of of roles there. So we we we were sort of a travel travel you know, adjacent I or or friends of travel, I say. So what what what was like your what was like sort of the the the the the sort of thing that made you make the leap? I think that's such an important piece of this. Like when I asked
Mike Liben:
Number Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
people who start business, especially when they're trying to do technologies and creative like this. what's your advice? Like what yeah I'd love to hear like your thought. Like what was like, all right, it's twenty twenty two, I'm doing this.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, what made me take the leap, because you're right, in twenty twenty two th it w it was a rough time in the travel business. You know, a lot of industries, depending on what you did, it in the pandemic were down twenty percent, thirty percent. Travel was down eighty to ninety percent. It was nonexistent for a year or two.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. I know I I know I know MSPs, I IT providers like myself, like us, that that was their their specialty was resorts. And they basically went out b they went out basically went out of business. Was they they were not able was they they were they weren't working out work
Mike Liben:
yeah, totally. You had to cut expenses down to zero. Everything went. Everything.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah, and and and it's very hard for someone like us we have some fi really serious fixed contractual costs to deliver the service. Most like everyone does, but IT services, you know, we buy a lot of stuff for people and there's money out of the street and there's I'm sure to think you guys as well. You it's a there's a lot of kind of flowing, but so anyway, I I don't really think it that far, but what what was like sort of like okay, what was the moment that of truth, you know?
Mike Liben:
Yes. Yeah. Course. Yeah, and and I don't think I ever would have been able to do it if I didn't watch my dad's career and his business so closely because he worked through some really hard times in the travel business. Right. There were there was a recession in the nineties, there were some sh there were some really important impactful chhh sh ch changes to how the airlines
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right.
Mike Liben:
worked with travel agencies also in the 90s. That was very hard on agencies at the time. there was, you know, there was there was there was 2001 and September 11th. There was the Great Recession. So every single time travel got really beat up, it always came back stronger than ever. And I knew that was going to be the case again.
Georg Dauterman:
sure. I remember that. yeah, for sure. Right.
Mike Liben:
Because it's a fundamental human need, right? When they have the money to do it and and they have the opportunity to do it, it will it will always, always be close to the top of people's list on how to spend that extra money.
Georg Dauterman:
can say that this maybe my own family in my own was like my you know we we seek experiences versus things and travel is one of the most powerful experience generation it was you know you you don't no one ever remembers the thing you got. It's it's where you got it. That's what matters. Right. If you
Mike Liben:
Exactly. Exactly. Us Right. That's totally true. And experiences are, you know, they're also like a form of currency, right? Like ever right, it's it's really important these days. It's kind of the new stuff. Which is great. Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
It really is a new stuff. It's it's yeah, if you think about people like it, you know in the past it was about collect it was a collecting of things and now it's a collecting of experiences. And part of it's social media, I think, but also part of it is our society's changed a bit too as well.
Mike Liben:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's true. That's true. And I think that's also y you know, if I may, I think that is a little bit a remnant of the pandemic. That you know, we were we were all locked up inside to some degree. We were constricted to some degree, and I think it really reinforced the value of experiences.
Georg Dauterman:
It unbelievable. It's a it's it's a it's it and it's great and and even just seeing the the way it resurged back and seeing f full flights and full hotels. So
Mike Liben:
yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's hard to get a seat on an airplane now, even with how expensive it is. And it is expensive. But these planes are flying full, full.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. Yeah, they're they're not they're not yeah, the days of the of the of the hatful doesn't happen anymore and then and you know, ha just in my own personal experience, getting the standby ticket, working in the airline and then you would get then you would get the upgrade to like business class and it was the most great it was as a as a kid and those days are long gone. Like no one gets those tickets anymore.
Mike Liben:
Never map anymore. That's right. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's like winning the lottery. it's true, it's funny, 'cause I remember when I was a kid I would get dressed up to go on airplanes 'cause we were guests at the airline, right? My dad would get these favors or whatnot. And I would need to wear like a little suit sometimes or something like that. It was very it was very different and it was great though. It was great.
Georg Dauterman:
Yes. It's funny, Mike, you say that as one of our family jokes is that we just picture of us when I was when I was younger, we're traveling and we literally were in a jacket tie, you're all ready to go, and you know represent the airline and you and I mean I remember my mother's like, Don't make a sound, just be quiet. You know, like you but I is it it'll come back on me if I if you if something happens. And and now you look you know, not the not the knock what people do today. This is more observations.
Mike Liben:
Mm-hmm because you represented the airline too. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah, people wearing like sweatpants and no socks, which I find bizarre. Which I
Mike Liben:
Yeah, it's very different. It's very different. And you know, I think obviously we try to present well and if I'm flying I try to look nice and it is a very different experience flying these days.
Georg Dauterman:
Hundred percent. Hundred percent. So well and I w we're gonna get some more travel questions, but like I would love to hear some of the stuff you've done that's as you as you built the company in since twenty twenty two that you you leverage technology in ways that maybe were not available back when your dad and when the company when you were sort of like even from twenty twenty two to now. I mean I I I it never sees me how fast things are going right now. We can even touch on that in a second, but I'd love to hear what things you've seen in the past four years that you've been working in this.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Yeah, so the key for us has been ensuring that we have the right technology to make sure that our people can work as efficiently as they possibly can, right? 'Cause the work is done on a human to human level still.
Georg Dauterman:
Right.
Mike Liben:
In terms of our client base, because we don't have a lot of huge corporations that are using an online booking tool where you just, you know, you access a website, you do your flights, and that's it. The majority of our business, the vast majority of our business is human to human. Extremely high value, extremely high touch, and extremely high contact work. So where we use technology is really in the background of that, to ensuring
Georg Dauterman:
Right.
Mike Liben:
That everybody has all the information and all the tools that they need to have those human to human interactions in a super efficient
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right. You w you want to make sure that, you know, in your in this industry, I was like many industries, but specifically, if someone calls, there's literally a reason why. They're not they're not that's actually like lesson one of being in IT is by the way, no one calls you because they wanna say hello and something's always broken. So it's like you once you accept that.
Mike Liben:
Yes, they're not calling to hang out or to chat. Fair enough. I mean I stop by sometimes to say hello, but I won't call to say hello.
Georg Dauterman:
You know, you know, well you're a neighbor we let's go back to the top of this. You're a neighborly. It's a very different thing, Mike. But most people when the phone rings, it's like are are we always kind of joke, it's like the mailman, like you know it's be more male. Like you gotta s you gotta be okay. There's always be more problems. And that's sort of like what we solve. you know, and has d have you know so talking about technology, how what are some of the things that you've seen changed with the especially with AI? I that's someone everyone's asking.
Mike Liben:
'Cause we're neighbors. That's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes.
Georg Dauterman:
And that not not to but not to be on the AI bandwagon, but man, we're seeing it everywhere. And so I'd love to hear what you what you're seeing and what you're sort of working on as well, if you don't mind sharing.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, yeah. No, of course, I mean it's everywhere in our industry too. you know, there's there's excitement and there's a lot of anxiety around it too, right? Because, you know, there's a fear that AI will replace, you know. I I think that goes in a lot of different industries. We are not immune. But what we have tried to we have really tried to get home is that the work that we do in terms of the really creating a trusted relationship.
Georg Dauterman:
Same for us.
Mike Liben:
Is not something that can be replaced and it won't be replaced. And what you know, however, we do believe, and I've talked about this a lot, that if we don't if we don't find a way to work it into our lives and into our work, we will be at a disadvantage against those who have the relationship side, but also have the use of these advanced technologies to improve the quality of work and the quantity of work that they can do. It's really the quantity of work where you can you where you can use it as a multiple.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Very similar. We have a similar outlook on it. Like we I'm a big believer that when things go off the rails, you need someone to call. That's really what it comes down to. That's sort of what we provide for folks. And much like anything else, yeah. Unlike well, lawyering's different with anyone that any any lawyer if you do your own lawyering, you're asking for trouble. But that's that's that's a that's a bad spot.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The ch Yes, that's true. That's true. And if you do somebody else's lawyer and you're not a lawyer, you've actually committed a felony. So you can't do that. So you can't do that. Right exactly.
Georg Dauterman:
Right, right. You're not you've not been right. If you've not been committed to the bar, that's you can't even say I play one on TV. You know, it's you gotta be very clear. But but but I I think that that if you combine the the tools with the with the human touch and and the and the trusted trusted understanding, as well as making things more consistent, which I I know in our in our industry that's one of the hardest problems is the consistency.
Mike Liben:
Correct. Not allowed. Correct.
Georg Dauterman:
it's like it's like magic if you can do it, really hard. And I imagine a traveling tree is not dissimilar because people want a great experience wherever they go and they want it to be friction free. So
Mike Liben:
Do. I mean, you know, a huge amount of our advisors are able to talk about things extremely intelligently and extremely deeply in large part because they've experienced these things, right? They're always on the road experiencing these things. And you and it's really hard to replicate that using a technology. you know, the flip side of this and what we've what we've really started to talk about is
Georg Dauterman:
Right.
Mike Liben:
AI won't be an improvement over what you can do at your core job, but please try to think about the three or four most annoying things that you have to do in a given day. And that is what you should be outsourcing, right? Like that, you you know, for $25 a month or whatever it is, you can basically have an assistant, right? You can you can have like a really like a huge time saver. And so that is what we're trying to build up, the confidence and
Georg Dauterman:
That's a hundred per Correct. We have a hundred percent, Mike. We're we're we're doing it very much around the crawl, walk, run mindset where it's like just start at the basics, find a dumbest, repeatable task, and or or or the th for me at least, I what I find it the thing I don't do consistently. Because machines are really good at being consistent. That's that's what that's what they're programmed to do. Whereas humans are not programmed to do that, but we're really good at making people feel great.
Mike Liben:
Mm-hmm. True. Yeah. Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
I think that's that's really what it comes down to. It's so important. so one of the things I would love to ask. So with all this technology, all the the human aspect, if someone's new to a travel advisor, just tell me walk me through like the process of like starting. But I think I think that I think there's I think there's like a sense there's a big barrier. Like it's almost it's almost like I I don't even know what the equivalent will be, but like people don't even know how to even like start.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I think the way to approach it would be the way you approach any professional, which is you want to understand in that first conversation what they're gonna do for you. You're gonna understand how they're gonna do it and what it's gonna cost. And these are all legitimate questions to ask in a first conversation. You know, I I think what I you know, if I may, and I what I wouldn't suggest is trying to get all their ideas about
Georg Dauterman:
Right.
Mike Liben:
what specifically you're gonna plan the first call, right? Right. Right? Like, because, you know, that's what the product and the service is too, right? So you really so you wanna talk to make sure that you have a good rapport with them. You wanna make sure they understand what you want to do. you know, you should always have a conversation about if there are upfront fees or not. These are all completely legitimate questions to ask. You should ask them.
Georg Dauterman:
man, I've been there. I know that feeling.
Mike Liben:
and the other thing is if you do have a general sense of what you want to do, you should ensure that they actually have an understanding of that particular that particular area, right? Do they do leisure travel? Do they do corporate travel? Is that what you need them for? so you know, these are all the things that that that would be totally reasonable.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. You wanna be sort of up front, like, hey, I'm looking to do this thing, trying to get it done. How do you guys that was the cost? How how do you guys get compensated? you know, because just knowing how much time it takes to actually do these sort of things, people don't really realize you're making phone calls, you're checking things, you're put you you're assembling it. And and that
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Correct, correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, correct. Exactly. It is a it's hugely time intensive, right? There's work to do to plan the trip and then they're kind of like on that trip with you. They're making sure everything is everything is okay. If you have a problem, you're gonna call them first. So there's a lot that goes into it.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. S so what so I'm gonna keep I'll keep going on this theme. Where is it going off the rails? Or have you seen it be like, man, oof
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Okay. You mean with like the advisor client relationship or just crazy travel stories where things just go awry?
Georg Dauterman:
we'll get that crazy travel in a second. The client the th the tr the the client advisor one, which I think that's where I I know like I I could tell you like here are value there's very specific things that I tend to be like the flashing red warning sign. You're like right, where you're like, this is gonna go bad. I already feel this. And then you and then you know you have to make that hard decision, but like or where you didn't really pick up on those those warning signs and then you're like, man, you you start playing the Kaiser Sose thing in your head where you're like
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Where we w where you roll your eyes. Sure. Sure. Of course. Yes, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Georg Dauterman:
It was all there the whole time, the usual suspects, you know. Exactly, exactly.
Mike Liben:
How did I not see who was Kobayashi? Yeah, exactly. Yes. I think you know, it it becomes pretty clear early on, I think, when a person just kind of wants to milk you for information without actually working with you in the end. and the truth of the matter is that usually won't work out well for either party, because obviously on the advisor side, it's waste of time. But on the client side, while
Georg Dauterman:
Right.
Mike Liben:
А лата фік і кінчу. that that you can take the same information and r and recreate whatever the travel advisor was going to do, you really can't. And that that is because we spend a lot of time cultivating our relationships with the airlines and the hotels. And so when we call them with a problem, we can deal with those problems in ways that that that are unique and extremely advantageous.
Georg Dauterman:
Correct. Yeah. Right. Well it's it's a volume thing, right? You buy one ticket every five years, we buy five tickets every five hours.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, exact exactly. Okay, and it is a volume thing, I won't deny that. It is also though a relationship thing that we are we're trusted intermediaries, right? That we're g that the airlines and hotels know we will be reasonable in the way we deal with them and with our clients.
Georg Dauterman:
But right, is Right. You you you because y you have the you have your desire is the best outcome for the client. And also to make sure the hotel and the airline does not have like a lunatic in their facility, which is really important because that reflects on you guys. Like if that goes wrong, you're like, Why'd you send that person here? This person's nuts.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, yes. Yeah, ex yeah. Exactly. Correct. And look, we do a lot of entertainment travel, which means a lot of touring musicians, and so we get into you know, we hear there are interesting things that happens. And so it's good to be a kind of a credible intermediary.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. You you don't want to be the person to deal with like the Led Zeppelin in the seventies kind of vibe, you know, where it's like the hot the hotel room getting destroyed every every night. So that's good.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Yeah, exact may or may not have been one of my dad's clients back in the day. Yeah. Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
Where I'm saying get the lead out. but so so Mike, where is the cr so I'm gonna ask two more c travel questions and now where have you seen this thing go off the rails where you're like, man, we gotta help these people out? Like just like if you could. I love stories like this.
Mike Liben:
Sure. So there's a really interesting story. you know, we have a we we have a Had a client in Israel. This was a year ago in June of 2025. And they were there.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah.
Mike Liben:
You know, and they were essentially stranded. There was no way to get out of Israel. all the flights were grounded, and you know, we needed to create a way for them to make their way home, which we did. it was a l it it it was a it was a real team effort. It involved some longstanding relationships we had with some travel f with what what With some travel folks in Israel that you know usually are doing all sorts of amazing vacations, helping us plan those. But in this case, they were the ones that arranged all the logistics inside of Israel to get this person from where they were to the border of Jordan, through Jordan, to an air to a to a really great hotel in Jordan, and they had a flight home from Jordan.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Right.
Mike Liben:
You know, and so and also we use some other relationships to essentially ensure that this traveler was escorted throughout the entire way. By some former military folks. yeah, exactly. And they felt comfortable and that they were safe. Yes, exactly. So yeah, and I will and and I will end that story by telling you the traveler in question was my mother. So so so this was really a team family effort. Thanks around.
Georg Dauterman:
keep keeping them safe, making sure they're right. Right. Right. Which is amazing. no. my that must have been so so so the stakes are high because if we went off the rail, she's like I we we're a part of the travel industry and I can't even get home. What the hell's going on? That's awesome. That's great.
Mike Liben:
She she's our she's our most wonderful client. CC, yeah, she's a great she's a great client. But so that is an example of the of in as I'm sure it is in your industry as well, you never know what is around the corner, but there's always something around the corner. You just know you just don't know when it's gonna come.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah. We we Megan and I have said it probably three hundred times, probably say it three hundred more times. It's never an if but when. And the when is this preparing for the when and having the contingencies and all the pieces in place so that we can assist the assist our our clients, our trusted people we work with and our each other, and getting it out the door. So all right, I'm gonna ask one more question, I'm gonna let you go because I can you go on for hours with you, Mike. You're too easy to talk to.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. Sure, sure.
Georg Dauterman:
What are some of your favorite places that go that may not be like the normal, like, I've been to Rome. I've been, you know, yeah. And nothing is not that there's anything wrong with those. Those places are amazing. But you'd be like, man, I went to insert weird place or interesting place that you know that that you would say people should check out.
Mike Liben:
Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay, s so I'm gonna give you three answers. The first is really mundane. I'm gonna go outside of your question. And I'm just gonna say I love going to Paris. it is outside of New York. It's my favorite city in the world. It's phenomenal where we got engaged. Lindsay and I, it's just a in it's an awesome place. I love going there. I could go there all the time. the most interesting place I have been, which unfortunately you can't really go right now.
Georg Dauterman:
I I I love it. Love it. It's a great city. It's really cool.
Mike Liben:
would probably probably be Myanmar, which was an which is an unbelievable place to go visit.
Georg Dauterman:
interesting. That wouldn't even be on my radar, man. Like it was like it's like literally not even a place I would think to go.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. It's unbelievable. You know, it's you can't really go right now, although I'm hopeful that you will be able to So again, in terms of the political situation, because it's an unbelievable place, an unbelievable landscape and the people, the food are amazing. Other than that, I think what isn't on a lot of people's radars is there are there are wonderful places in San Francisco.
Georg Dauterman:
Right. Interesting.
Mike Liben:
So, you know, if you haven't considered that, you should consider Argentina, you should consider Chile. There's some really amazing, amazing places to go see with a huge variety of things to do as well.
Georg Dauterman:
That's very cool. I I've I've been wanting to go to Argentina since I was a kid. point pictures of Buenos Aires. Looks looks like a cool city. I I I it's a couple of floors up. I was gotta get up there and so I was like, Mike, who who's the who is the Argentinian expert? I'm sure I'm sure you have everyone in in their back pocket. Like I know I know the I know the gal. She's good. So it's good. Awesome. I I I said I love travel and it's it's a pleasure to w to have you as a neighbor and work with you and hear about this.
Mike Liben:
Yeah, well, you know where our office is, just come by, we'll help you out. Exactly. Who's the Argentina per we'll get you one? Don't worry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Megan Quick:
Mm-hmm.
Georg Dauterman:
Anything you would like to say to everyone as we kinda wrap this up?
Mike Liben:
No, this was great. I'm really glad we did this. I appreciate the invitation. and yeah, it was great. Let's do it again sometime.
Georg Dauterman:
You got it. We'll maybe we'll do a we have some we have some ideas to make it even more enhanced. So awesome. All right, Megan. Let's get us out of here.
Mike Liben:
Okay, very nice.
Megan Quick:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No. And I well, yeah, just to echo George, on everything you said and just like how fun it was to have you here. And also, you were saying now experiences are the stuff. And I have like a cop first of all, Paris. I went to Paris twice a few years ago and I bought a coat from Paris. So it was 20 euro. So it's a combination of like the status of saying, like, people go, Where'd you get that? I'm like, Sorry, a f a frippery in Paris. I can't so it's like you would I I don't even it was on a side street. Yeah. but I I I was just like, he's so right. That's how I that's my little story now. no. You don't have Thank you.
Georg Dauterman:
Paris.
Mike Liben:
yeah. A very small place. It's one of yeah, very small.
Georg Dauterman:
So hold on, I gotta give I I gotta give I gotta give Megan some gas here because Megan ran the Paris Marathon, which is the most amazing way to see a city. This twenty six miles of running through a city is unbelievable.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. that's awesome. Yes.
Megan Quick:
The the first the first twelve miles I was like greatest way to see a city. I will say you kinda you just tunnel vision after that. I was like Eiffel Tower, whatever you know.
Mike Liben:
Yeah.
Georg Dauterman:
Keep moving. Gotta get finished. Yep. It's true.
Mike Liben:
You're just in the pain cave. It doesn't matter what city you're in. Yeah.
Megan Quick:
We we ended on the the cobblestones and French people my last name is Quick and French people saw that and they'll go, Quiek. and I was like, Stop talk stop don't tell me. Anyway, traveling is amazing. yeah. Thank you, George. And Mike, thank you so much for joining us. And as George said, we're gonna yeah, I we'll have advanced, fun, enhanced ways of having you on. This was so great. Thank you so much.
Georg Dauterman:
Ha ha ha.
Mike Liben:
Yeah. It's not a pun.
Georg Dauterman:
I we agree a hundred percent.
Mike Liben:
I appreciate that plug. Thank you.
Georg Dauterman:
Yeah.
Mike Liben:
Great. Awesome.
Georg Dauterman:
Awesome. Thank you. All right.
Megan Quick:
All right. Thank you everyone for joining us today. Let's go next. bye.
Georg Dauterman:
By now.
Mike Liben:
Let's go next, that's right.